|
Post by Nick_BrewersGM on Aug 18, 2015 21:43:48 GMT -5
How is Stanton Jimenez not making over $20 million a year that is rediculous considering I have to pay will taylor $338.1 Million over 8 years because in "free agency hell demand that much" and then a 6.1 WAR Allstar Shortstop who's a year younger with 9 contact 9 eye, 300+ average 390+ OBP great defense and speed gets 6 years 106 Million?
Will Taylor Stanton Jimenez WAR 5.1 (2034) WAR 6.1 (2034) Demanding Got 10 Years $331.8 Mill 6 Years $109.5 Mil Greed: VERY LOW Greed: VERY HIGH
now i understand that some GMs are paying starters a rediculous amount of money but Chris Thorton just got paid 200 Million dollars and never played a game so wheres the increase in position player salaries??
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 21:58:58 GMT -5
Very intetesting article man
|
|
|
Post by AstrosGM_Shane on Aug 18, 2015 22:41:27 GMT -5
This isn't even comparable. Will Taylor is one of the best pitchers in the game and one of the top players in the game.
It's clear as day that starters like Taylor get paid the most. Probably a reason I will never have somebody like him unless a spec can develop into one.
|
|
|
Post by Nick_BrewersGM on Aug 18, 2015 22:54:59 GMT -5
This isn't even comparable. Will Taylor is one of the best pitchers in the game and one of the top players in the game. It's clear as day that starters like Taylor get paid the most. Probably a reason I will never have somebody like him unless a spec can develop into one. Will Taylor is not $232 million dollars more valuable than Stanton jimenez not in market value not in actual value. A free agent without a single game under his belt got paid 200 million dollars how the helll is a multi year allstar and player who earned 6.1 WAR making less then 110 million 120 million 130 million 140 million 150 million...jimenez is a top 10-15 hitters in the entire league
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 23:06:24 GMT -5
Holy $!#@, that would be the largest contract ever in any sport. 41m a year? With the budgets this league has is setting a scary trend.
|
|
|
Post by Nick_BrewersGM on Aug 18, 2015 23:11:20 GMT -5
Holy $!#@, that would be the largest contract ever in any sport. 41m a year? With the budgets this league has is setting a scary trend. I'm sorry over 10 years lol 275 mill over 8 years guaranteed 10 years over 338.1 total value
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 23:20:35 GMT -5
Ok that makes more since I guess, it is in line with real baseball in a way. But I do agree hitting is a little under valued in some of the contacts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 3:57:19 GMT -5
This isn't even comparable. Will Taylor is one of the best pitchers in the game and one of the top players in the game. It's clear as day that starters like Taylor get paid the most. Probably a reason I will never have somebody like him unless a spec can develop into one. But isn't that strange? I haven't checked the actual numbers, but the general perception is that we have less good hitters than good pitchers in this league. If that is the case, good hitters should be more expensive than good pitchers, right?
|
|
|
Post by Nick_BrewersGM on Aug 19, 2015 8:36:13 GMT -5
This isn't even comparable. Will Taylor is one of the best pitchers in the game and one of the top players in the game. It's clear as day that starters like Taylor get paid the most. Probably a reason I will never have somebody like him unless a spec can develop into one. But isn't that strange? I haven't checked the actual numbers, but the general perception is that we have less good hitters than good pitchers in this league. If that is the case, good hitters should be more expensive than good pitchers, right? no i agree that pitchers should be more expensive than position players. We made the market this way. When a PBL GM sees a star hitter or an ace they spend all their money on an ace so then in contract extensions pitchers deserve to make more i get it...However, stanton Jimenez is one of the most valuable position players in the league, He had a 6.1 WAR with attributes to back it up, and he's younger. Theres no way Will Taylor should be worth over 33 Million a year while stanton Jimenez is making around 18 million. I was told that the "objective" is to make GMs not even want to sign extensions in order to force players players into free agency. So why am i being forces to pay a huge premium to keep taylor but stanton jimenez is signed at a discount?
|
|
|
Post by Luc_AZdbacks on Aug 19, 2015 9:35:49 GMT -5
Yeah, Jimenez's contract does seem to be definitely on the low side. Before I traded him, in-game he was demanding $21 million per year. Since he is probably the top 2B in the game, and since he had high greed, I assumed he would get around $22-24 million per year, which was one of the main reasons I traded him.
If he had low greed I could see this contract, but for a player that just really cares about money it seems a bit low.
But to be fair, we have established the precedent (rightly or wrongly) that SP are more valuable than position players.
|
|
|
Post by AstrosGM_Shane on Aug 19, 2015 10:57:04 GMT -5
Here is the official response from the Pirates owner.
"We can't take a shit without the rest of the league clamming up about how our toilet paper was better then everybody else's and where we got it from and how we got it. Meanwhile the Padres, Red Sox, and Royals...the Royals a little earlier then now continue to win the World Series over and over again while the Pirates have not. We are not the evil empire but from now on we are perfectly willing to play along as if we are. If you want Jimenez and his "wonderful" contract, trade me your top PBL's best batter that can hit .300 and 40 home runs a year and I'll know you are serious and not just bitching because our toilet paper is made out of gold and yours isn't."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 10:58:42 GMT -5
With how hard it is to acquire young good hitting in this league I kinda agree with Nick. Seems like the demand for a hitter in this league is higher which should balloon their price
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 11:04:55 GMT -5
But then again theirs an elite group of pitchers and Taylor is one of them.
|
|
|
Post by Nick_BrewersGM on Aug 19, 2015 11:06:50 GMT -5
Here is the official response from the Pirates owner. "We can't take a shit without the rest of the league clamming up about how our toilet paper was better then everybody else's and where we got it from and how we got it. Meanwhile the Padres, Red Sox, and Royals...the Royals a little earlier then now continue to win the World Series over and over again while the Pirates have not. We are not the evil empire but from now on we are perfectly willing to play along as if we are. If you want Jimenez and his "wonderful" contract, trade me your top PBL's best batter that can hit .300 and 40 home runs a year and I'll know you are serious and not just bitching because our toilet paper is made out of gold and yours isn't." no one is complaining about u at all you did your job and negotiated a deal that works best for the pirates. Im complaining about the system. if one GM is being told that you have to pay a ridiculous amount because we want to make it extremely hard to resign superstars then why is this superstar being paid below market value. I just want consistency Im not saying Jimenez deserves Taylor money but theres an extremely disproportionate gap between 6 year $109.5 million and 8 years $275 million
|
|
|
Post by Commish_Ron on Aug 19, 2015 11:33:31 GMT -5
I should probably keep my mouth shut but I feel compelled to weigh in on this thread.
In my personal opinion Jimenez has enormous value. He is one of the few truly elite lead off hitters in the league. He is a catalyst for whatever offense he plays with. I made a huge push to get him from the Diamondbacks and came up short. I personally think his contract is a light.
That being said. Every time I have negotiated with Zevin I have been extremely impressed with the research he is doing. He finds similar players and sets the price based on what the market has set. The Padres likely hurt the market by getting (again in my opinion) a steal on the Jack Sellars contract. Much of that was luck as he really struggled offensively before the signing and has blossomed since. But the bottom line is Sellars is only getting 13 million a year. Is Jimenez that much better? Comparing an infielder to a starting pitcher is apples to oranges. The question is what are other infielders getting?
As I look at the top contracts there are only 3 infielders (2B,3B,SS) currently making over $18 mil. Reys, Liu and Harrington. The top infielder is Reys at $22.4 mil. Additionally, all 3 of those infielders are 30+. When Jimenez contract expires he will be 34 and still have time for one more huge contract. That's just the numbers I see doing quick research on the webpages.
Zevin has never publicly released the analysis he has done with any contract and I don't believe he should. That is too much data and overhead.
I am a little conflicted here. I completely support questioning the system. That is how it can be refined and improved. But what is the solution here? Should analysis be available on request for transparency? Maybe, but I am also leery of adding additional burden to the commish.
There is going to be differences of opinion of course. But Zevin is providing a valuable service. Way more money is being put into contracts. I don't think there is any debating that.
To me the main question here is not "What is wrong with this contract?" The question to me is "Why aren't we spending Free Agent dollars on infielders?"
|
|