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Post by Commish_Ron on Aug 20, 2019 20:14:54 GMT -5
The proposal here is that on or around opening day each season, the commissioner can purge out some clutter in the free agent pool. Always keeping a minimum of 500 free agent available.
75 % positive required to implement. Proxy votes will be cast to Yes.
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Post by David_ExposGM on Aug 21, 2019 6:46:29 GMT -5
My poor horse!
Another "lesser of two evils" poll. The choices are Bad or Worse.
A third option, in my opinion, would be to setup the game to maintain the desired level of talent? I fail to understand the aversion to this.
My vote is no to purging, which does not mean I endorse file bloat, it means I prefer to set up the game so it's not required (likely through the number of generated players annually, which of course I know is not an option).
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Post by Commish_Ron on Aug 21, 2019 8:45:59 GMT -5
My poor horse! Another "lesser of two evils" poll. The choices are Bad or Worse. A third option, in my opinion, would be to setup the game to maintain the desired level of talent? I fail to understand the aversion to this. My vote is no to purging, which does not mean I endorse file bloat, it means I prefer to set up the game so it's not required (likely through the number of generated players annually, which of course I know is not an option). "My poor horse!" ROFL. Yeah, philosophically I completely agree with that third option. However the only way I know to control the number of players is to reduce the number of draft rounds players are created for. That has some other impact as well (See the players created for draft round poll for more info).
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Post by David_ExposGM on Aug 21, 2019 18:46:45 GMT -5
I realize there is little point to making the argument that, for the last couple of versions, the game has somewhat reverted to the model where players can develop out of nowhere. The reason, several versions prior to that, they moved in the direction of more "stars" that would consistently be good was that the drafts were widely panned as "sucking".
Thankfully, at least among the developers, they moved slightly back to the model of having players surprise from time to time. And also have stars bust more often.
A surprise is far more likely to be removed with a manual, bulk, purge of players and why I still maintain (quite clearly talking only to myself) why the "right" number of players, created and maintained by the game, is the "right" number, removing the need to purge.
One last shot... What is this player is purged? One would never know what might have been.
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Post by MetDaMeats on Aug 21, 2019 19:21:33 GMT -5
I realize there is little point to making the argument that, for the last couple of versions, the game has somewhat reverted to the model where players can develop out of nowhere. The reason, several versions prior to that, they moved in the direction of more "stars" that would consistently be good was that the drafts were widely panned as "sucking".
Thankfully, at least among the developers, they moved slightly back to the model of having players surprise from time to time. And also have stars bust more often.
A surprise is far more likely to be removed with a manual, bulk, purge of players and why I still maintain (quite clearly talking only to myself) why the "right" number of players, created and maintained by the game, is the "right" number, removing the need to purge.
One last shot... What is this player is purged? One would never know what might have been.
To my understanding, it isn't the case that a player is "secretly" a 7/7/7 potential guy, who displays initially as a 3/2/4. Instead, I think the game processes sequential, randomized boosts into farm systems (although I'm unclear if this also happens to guys in free agency). The 3/2/4 guy gets a tiny jump to 4/4/4. And maybe he'll get another pushing him closer to being a viable player. I can't confirm this, but I theorize that if one random boost happens (which is very unlikely), then the chance of another occurring is increased. This creates a sort of cascading effect of multiple boosts, although none are guaranteed. Maybe I'm wrong in this, but I don't think the ability to leap ahead in skill out of nowhere is a trait assigned to an individual player when he is generated. Instead its part of this randomized mechanism that the game performs regardless of who, or how many players should happen to be in the free agent/minor league pool. I'm happy to stand corrected if there's documentation that it happens the other way. But if I'm right then it is better to purge, because then having a free agent pool with a higher skill floor, means those boosts are more likely to be meaningful.
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Post by David_ExposGM on Aug 21, 2019 19:38:55 GMT -5
Like I said, I give up...
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Post by MetDaMeats on Aug 21, 2019 19:48:00 GMT -5
Look, I'm one hundred percent willing to have my mind changed here. I just don't understand your point if the game doesn't create unrevealed boosts at player generation.
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Post by BlueJaysGM_Fin on Aug 22, 2019 10:46:05 GMT -5
I realize there is little point to making the argument that, for the last couple of versions, the game has somewhat reverted to the model where players can develop out of nowhere. The reason, several versions prior to that, they moved in the direction of more "stars" that would consistently be good was that the drafts were widely panned as "sucking".
Thankfully, at least among the developers, they moved slightly back to the model of having players surprise from time to time. And also have stars bust more often.
A surprise is far more likely to be removed with a manual, bulk, purge of players and why I still maintain (quite clearly talking only to myself) why the "right" number of players, created and maintained by the game, is the "right" number, removing the need to purge.
One last shot... What is this player is purged? One would never know what might have been.
To my understanding, it isn't the case that a player is "secretly" a 7/7/7 potential guy, who displays initially as a 3/2/4. Instead, I think the game processes sequential, randomized boosts into farm systems (although I'm unclear if this also happens to guys in free agency). The 3/2/4 guy gets a tiny jump to 4/4/4. And maybe he'll get another pushing him closer to being a viable player. I can't confirm this, but I theorize that if one random boost happens (which is very unlikely), then the chance of another occurring is increased. This creates a sort of cascading effect of multiple boosts, although none are guaranteed. Maybe I'm wrong in this, but I don't think the ability to leap ahead in skill out of nowhere is a trait assigned to an individual player when he is generated. Instead its part of this randomized mechanism that the game performs regardless of who, or how many players should happen to be in the free agent/minor league pool. I'm happy to stand corrected if there's documentation that it happens the other way. But if I'm right then it is better to purge, because then having a free agent pool with a higher skill floor, means those boosts are more likely to be meaningful. I don't profess to know the answer, so just a question and if anyone can confirm, that would be helpful. Does the TCR (Talent Change Randomness) option have an affect on the boosts we see? And do we know hat it is set to in this league?
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Post by Commish_Ron on Aug 22, 2019 12:39:53 GMT -5
I don't profess to know the answer, so just a question and if anyone can confirm, that would be helpful. Does the TCR (Talent Change Randomness) option have an affect on the boosts we see? And do we know hat it is set to in this league? I am not familiar with this setting. Is it new to 20? I can take a look in the game this evening.
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Post by sansterre - Milwaukee Brewers on Aug 22, 2019 12:51:31 GMT -5
Historically it's been in player settings. As I recall there are options for how batters age, how pitchers age and how random talent spikes are (there are two others, maybe how quickly batters/pitchers develop?). Basically it's a 1-200 setting (as I recall) where one side is "Potential Ratings control all, what you see is what you get" and the other side is "Someone with great potential is honestly fairly likely to bust; someone with no potential is totally capable of becoming great").
It's basically the Albert Pujols setting. Without talent randomness, there's no way a 13th rounder could become first-ballot Hall of Famer; if he had *truly* had HoF potential he could not have fallen 13 rounds, even with scouting fog of war. The only way to do it is give players a chance to spontaneously improve their potential ratings for no apparent reason. Which also generally builds in the increase possibility that players will spontaneously lose their potential ratings for no reason.
To be clear, I don't favor jiggering with this in any way, nor do I understand the reason for doing so, but I'm pretty sure that's where you find it.
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Post by earlweaver on Aug 22, 2019 13:05:34 GMT -5
TCR has a huge effect on boosts and declines. Infact, it is what causes it. The higher the setting, the more Boom/busts we will see.
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Post by BlueJaysGM_Fin on Aug 22, 2019 13:29:33 GMT -5
Historically it's been in player settings. As I recall there are options for how batters age, how pitchers age and how random talent spikes are (there are two others, maybe how quickly batters/pitchers develop?). Basically it's a 1-200 setting (as I recall) where one side is "Potential Ratings control all, what you see is what you get" and the other side is "Someone with great potential is honestly fairly likely to bust; someone with no potential is totally capable of becoming great"). It's basically the Albert Pujols setting. Without talent randomness, there's no way a 13th rounder could become first-ballot Hall of Famer; if he had *truly* had HoF potential he could not have fallen 13 rounds, even with scouting fog of war. The only way to do it is give players a chance to spontaneously improve their potential ratings for no apparent reason. Which also generally builds in the increase possibility that players will spontaneously lose their potential ratings for no reason. To be clear, I don't favor jiggering with this in any way, nor do I understand the reason for doing so, but I'm pretty sure that's where you find it. Well said John. I raised the TCR setting because of the fact I know it affects players up and down the roller-coaster ratings ride. And from what I read (And I could be totally wrong here, mind you) from Ben's post, it appeared to me he was referencing TCR when speaking about players suddenly becoming top-rated ratings talent. It does work both ways, where a top player with potential goes to a half-star potential. And it is indeed random (hence the 'R' in TCR). It can turn that 25th rounder into a HOF'er, and that 1st round pick a bust. Ron, the default setting is usually 100 when the game is released, with Markus and his team performing many, many simulations to ensure 100 (on a scale of 1-200) is where it should be for a normal ebb and flow. The setting in OOTP 20 is located under the 'Players & Facegen' tab. I'm not suggesting this should be changed, to be clear. I do think the league should be aware random talent changes happen in the game, both good (player becomes much, much better) and bad (top prospect loses all talents and becomes a scrub), and when you see it happen, you have an idea of why it happened. FYI
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Post by Commish_Ron on Aug 22, 2019 13:50:09 GMT -5
Any idea if TCR is a player attribute or a random league event? As a software developer, the latter makes more sense to me. You could accomplish this by setting a hidden attribute on a player that would eventually fire. If that is the case, David's example is real and valid. You could purge a player that was predestined to explode. But like I said, it would make more sense to me if this was handled at a league level. An event is triggered that goes out and bumps some random spec. If that is the case, purging FA has no impact on this feature.
I don't really expect any of us to know the answer here. If no one does I am fairly confident moving ahead on the assumption that it is a league event and purging players will not have an impact.
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Post by earlweaver on Aug 22, 2019 15:14:12 GMT -5
Its a random event
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Post by BlueJaysGM_Fin on Aug 22, 2019 15:46:27 GMT -5
Any idea if TCR is a player attribute or a random league event? As a software developer, the latter makes more sense to me. You could accomplish this by setting a hidden attribute on a player that would eventually fire. If that is the case, David's example is real and valid. You could purge a player that was predestined to explode. But like I said, it would make more sense to me if this was handled at a league level. An event is triggered that goes out and bumps some random spec. If that is the case, purging FA has no impact on this feature. I don't really expect any of us to know the answer here. If no one does I am fairly confident moving ahead on the assumption that it is a league event and purging players will not have an impact. I do not know as an absolute answer, my simple guess is random-based.
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