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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 13:54:32 GMT -5
As a new GM to the league, I was wondering who IYHO is the greatest player in league history?
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Post by earlweaver on Oct 15, 2016 14:49:11 GMT -5
Sotan Kono.....
I'm a bit biased and i only had him for 3 years!
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Post by Commish_Ron on Oct 15, 2016 15:22:35 GMT -5
Arturo Rivera. I'm biased too 😎
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Post by NickP_Marlins GM on Oct 15, 2016 15:36:26 GMT -5
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Post by Sean_RedsGM on Oct 15, 2016 16:04:15 GMT -5
Career WAR for the players stated above...
Kono 115.9 Rivera 70.5 Vasti 144.8
HR Kono 866 Rivera 506 Vasti 720
Kono and Vasti are both close in doubles and triples but Kono has the edge there. Kono has the most career PBL hr's and doesn't appear to be slowing down anytime soon. Vasti on the other hand is still a good hitter but not anywhere near the level he once was. I know RBI's aren't popular with the sabre-metric crowd but Kono has the edge there too. Yes, it helps to have players on base in front of you but you still have to knock them in.
I could keep going but offensively, for me it's Sotan Kono. This just shows why WAR isn't a tell all end all. Vasti gets a boost in WAR because of a ridiculously high career OBP and a higher WRC+. There is value for getting on base (Joey Votto) but is anyone really going to say Votto is better than Barry Bonds as a hitter?
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Post by sansterre - Milwaukee Brewers on Oct 15, 2016 17:18:04 GMT -5
In fairness, Barry Bonds is the second best obp hitter of all time.
I have to go with Vasti on this one. He's got the higher OPS (960 vs. 950) but his OPS is made up of much more OBP than Kono's. And OBP is, by any standard, much better than SLG on a point for point basis.
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Post by Peter - Boston Red Sox on Oct 15, 2016 18:31:16 GMT -5
I heard good things about legendary Chicago Cub Aaron Hicks. The legend hit .297 with 424 homers and 2500 hits to go with 300 steals and an OPS of 914.
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Post by Tim_GiantsGM on Oct 15, 2016 18:34:49 GMT -5
Bonds and Votto both were/are two of the better OBP hitters of all-time. Per BaseballReference.com, however, Ted Williams and Babe Ruth are the top two. It's great that we in the PBL now have enough history behind us to have this kind of a discussion. Comparing Vasti and Kono is a lot like comparing Williams, Ruth, Cobb, Hornsby, and a host of others. Who's best? Regardless of which one we favor, they're all great. With 32 all-star appearances between Vasti and Kono, how could one be wrong? I favor Vasti by a whisker when I factor in defensive ability, which was better than Kono. Kono, however, was a better base-stealer. Unbelievable stats for each - rate stats and counting stats. It's interesting that Vasti batted under .280 for only four of 23 seasons, and they occurred very late in his career. And Kono batted under .280 twice in 21 seasons, in his rookie year and again at age 40. They were two of the best for so long, it's hard to believe, especially when we all experience so many top prospects who flame out on us. At 36 years old, it doesn't appear that Rivera will have enough time to come close to Vasti and Kono. At least he can lay claim to the season HR record. Good discussion!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 18:48:05 GMT -5
Hiw about starters and closers?
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Post by Nick_BrewersGM on Oct 15, 2016 19:09:15 GMT -5
David Dino Williamson the best pitcher iv ever seen until Orlando Perez who's still going at it
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Post by Derek _ Red Sox on Oct 15, 2016 21:03:04 GMT -5
For hitter.. I am a bit biased because I had the pleasure of having Sotan Kono on my team but the fact he has 866 homers and is 28 away from being 100 more than anyone in history says a lot!!
Roberto Vasti is in the discussion. Guys had their moments, Bryce Harper (700 homers too), Gian Guzman was a FORCE for a long time. Prince Fielder was incredible for a period too. Dustin Ackley was one of the greats with almost 4,000 hits!!
Marvin Webb is an all-time PBL great who was a part of the first draft class and was unbelievable. He was the face of not just the Rays but the PBL for some time too.
Pitching wise is much more subjective but guys like Martin Perez, Tim Lincecum, Felix Hernandez were elite. I thought Lou Martin was a stud. Dino Williamson was dominant.
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Post by Derek _ Red Sox on Oct 15, 2016 21:07:31 GMT -5
For reliever, Roberto Salazar is the all-time save leader and had better numbers across the board than Mariano Rivera.
Gary Wood was dominant for a while. Johnathan Broxton could of been the all-time save leader before Salazar took the reign but he retired way too young.
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Post by Derek _ Red Sox on Oct 15, 2016 21:12:05 GMT -5
Julius Turner of Kansas City suffered a CEI at the age of 28 and he was on his way towards a legendary career. At the age of 23 he hit 25 homers and never looked back. His best year was .325-62-171 (10.5 WAR) and followed that with a .341-38-130 (9.1 WAR) Season.
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Post by Luc_AZdbacks on Oct 16, 2016 0:46:00 GMT -5
Having had both Dino Williamson and Orlando Perez, I do think Orlando Perez is definitely better than Williamson.
I may be biased, but I think Orlando Perez is the best pitcher in PBL history. Single season record holder in WHIP, OPP BA., WAR, K's, and Wins. Also won the Cy Young award 6 times!! And he's still only 34 years old
For hitters, Vasti is the name that stands out for me.. I remember how dominant he was when I joined the league
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Post by Sean_RedsGM on Oct 16, 2016 7:30:58 GMT -5
Both Kono and Vasti are great players but it's not like Vasti was an elite defender during his prime. Both have been a DH for quite awhile.
For me, the bottom line is this. If you value walks and singles more than 2B, 3B, and HR's then you like Vasti. The difference in walks/singles for me does not trump the difference in xbh. Steals essentially turn a single into an xbh as well.
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