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Post by Derek _ Red Sox on Feb 21, 2011 21:39:04 GMT -5
So we have had a very healthy discussion going on about many different topics (financials, free agents, drafts, contraction of Minor League teams, etc...) so I'd like to keep all that dialog going in this one thread as it is soooo much easier to for me to follow one thread instead of 5-6 as I constantly feel I am missing something.
All I ask is to make sure you make it known which debate your talking about in your post.
Questions/Concerns at hand:
1) Can we fix the financials of the league BEFORE we begin spending more money 2) How can we improve draft classes and free agent classes? 3) Should we remove some Minor League teams in participation of the World League (which will bring new foreign players into the PBL) 4) Should we limit Minor League roster sizes?
Any other topics you want to fix..
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Post by Derek _ Red Sox on Feb 21, 2011 21:49:53 GMT -5
A look at the league financial set up:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 22:15:43 GMT -5
my two cents on each: 1) Can we fix the financials of the league BEFORE we begin spending more moneyAs some ppl said in the other thread, the financials in OOTP11 are a complete mess, and I dont think anything apart from a major overhall will help the PBL get all the financials 'realistic'. Personally, I wouldnt advocate making major changes to financials before OOTP12 when the financial system has been completely reworked (which will hopefully fix everything for us?). If we do make some changes maybe increase the salary expectations of players by 20%? 2) How can we improve draft classes and free agent classes?Again OOTP12 promises far better/ realistic draft classes - so this should fix our issue. 3) Should we remove some Minor League teams in participation of the World League (which will bring new foreign players into the PBL)I love the realism of having all the minor leagues, I micro manage a lot of my minor league teams, take pride in them winning and think I have a 'formula' for creating okay specs out of nothing by really caring about my minors. I'd really like to keep all my minor league teams. 4) Should we limit Minor League roster sizes?Sure... if people have massive minor league rosters they should cut them down. Reading this back, it looks like I've been pretty conservative in my opinions (no change! ) but with a new version of the game about to hit (in less than 2 months right?) and with how well this league currently runs I can't see the point in making sweeping changes right now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 22:29:57 GMT -5
I think some of the players' financials can be tweaked to be more expensive. As of now, the contracts of players negotiating with their own teams are too low, causing everyone to have cash. As a result, the existing free agents have everybody going after them making them too expensive.
Albert Pujolz would command a lot more than 18.4 million on the open market, especially with the money the owners have.
Maybe the financials should be fixed to:
$14 million for super-stars $10 for stars $6 for good $3 for above average $1.25 for average $800K for below average
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 22:45:59 GMT -5
As for the minors, like Sam, I micro manage my minors and have never had too much of a problem of having too many players (except at Rookie League...I almost wish I HAD another minor league team!) in my organization. The players who totally suck I release.
I think the draft has been working okay for now, and enough random talent spikes are happening to average minor leaguers to buffer the poor classes.
A couple of other things. With the new Marlins stadium a possibility, I'd be interested in upgrading a few things about Colorado and Coors Field.
I think those upgrades should be handled by games and promotions. One, you won't be handing out as much cash preventing inflation. Instead credits will be assigned, which can be traded in for cash at the end of the year for cash, or for stadium "upgrades." Perhaps you want to add more seats. Perhaps you want to change a feature (shorter right field porch and increased left handed park factor for home runs, or push the fences back).
Something like one credit can be redeemed for $500K and 10 can be redeemed for $5 million, but those 10 can also add 50,000 seats, or add a million bucks to your media revenue (with a cap of say 10% of the original market for a 10 year period so you don't see markets like Milwaukee bringing in $65 million media contracts which are unfeasible).
I this will get more interest in the gaming, without it being a huge punishment to non participators.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 23:43:31 GMT -5
I think it's more of a direct effect of the OOTP finance system.
Regardless of how much the players may be asking nowadays, just take one look at my 2013 budget to see what's really wrong. My budget is $98M, and I'm the PADRES. In real life they have like 12 fans! In game, I saw attendance fall to an all-time low (ahem), and got rewarded (!) with an increased budget.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 1:13:06 GMT -5
I think it's more of a direct effect of the OOTP finance system. Regardless of how much the players may be asking nowadays, just take one look at my 2013 budget to see what's really wrong. My budget is $98M, and I'm the PADRES. In real life they have like 12 fans! In game, I saw attendance fall to an all-time low (ahem), and got rewarded (!) with an increased budget. This I really think we need to fix before 12 comes out. The combination of crazy budget and no punishment for indulging is just too much. The fix is simple: edit teams so that their beginning balance reflects the actual number they are in the red. This is simple as the game makes the calculation for you. Preceding year balance plus or minus luxury tax. As for other topics, I say keep minor league teams; limit rosters; ride out the ammy talent until 12.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 1:16:06 GMT -5
I think some of the players' financials can be tweaked to be more expensive. As of now, the contracts of players negotiating with their own teams are too low, causing everyone to have cash. As a result, the existing free agents have everybody going after them making them too expensive. Albert Pujolz would command a lot more than 18.4 million on the open market, especially with the money the owners have. Maybe the financials should be fixed to: $14 million for super-stars $10 for stars $6 for good $3 for above average $1.25 for average $800K for below average I would go even higher- 20, 14, 8, 5, 2.5, 800
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 2:00:14 GMT -5
1) Can we fix the financials of the league BEFORE we begin spending more money i think number wise should be superstar 16 mil star 12 mil good 8 mil above avg 3.5 mil avg 2 mil below avg 1 mil fair .6 poor .4 It is difficult because guys are still not going to get as much if they just get extensions. Like pujols isnt going to be asking for 30 mil like in real life. I think only way to fix that is really raise the superstar one and make the gaps bigger. maybe more like the 20, 13-14, 8 etc. This though should be getting fixed on 12 though. With financing too, markets like the yankees and red sox arent making anywhere near what they make in real life. that's why you see the yankees in negative. it is def a hard thing to make perfect though. 2) How can we improve draft classes and free agent classes? I don't think there is much that can be done here except possibly adding an international player, which i think is what you guys are trying through this world league, or bring a guy back from retirement. It happens year to year when there are going to just be shitty classes. Yes this one is really bad but it happens. Raising the finances will change this for sure. 3) Should we remove some Minor League teams in participation of the World League (which will bring new foreign players into the PBL) I don't understand the world league fully so can't answer. 4) Should we limit Minor League roster sizes? Yes I think there should be and I am bad about keeping up. I forgot to do that last season. I personally like 30 for AAA, AA, A. 35-40 (not too big of a deal) for SA and 45 for RL. but I'll go with whatever.
just my 2 cents i guess. i really dont think we can do much though might just have to wait for 12.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 11:01:46 GMT -5
1) Can we fix the financials of the league BEFORE we begin spending more money We tried this in the last league Rob and I were in, and it pretty much killed the league. However, we've got a better commish here, and a more active, and friendly, board. If we can come up with a simple external budget system, I say we go for it.
2) How can we improve draft classes and free agent classes? Yes, we can help the ammy draft by following the steps I outlined elsewhere on the forums (player creation modifiers in settings). Free agency should be fixed when we get the financials squared away.
3) Should we remove some Minor League teams in participation of the World League (which will bring new foreign players into the PBL) I say we keep the minors. Adding a world league won't add too much to our league file size, which is lightweight as is. We do need to buckle down, and get the PWL done though.
4) Should we limit Minor League roster sizes? I'd say 25 down the line, until you hit R and SA leagues, which should be 40.
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Post by reds on Feb 22, 2011 12:27:35 GMT -5
1) I am in favor of tweaking the player contract expectations in the setup screen as a first stab and making things more realistic and hopefully using up some of all of that excess money that we have. 2) I do think we should try to improve the draft class. I know an argument has been made that we have no dearth of rookies performing well right now, but I think that well will start to dry up if we have a few more drafts like the one we just had. It was honestly the worst draft class I have ever seen. 3) I am neutral on whether or not we should trim the number of minor league teams and would just go with what the Commish wants to do on this. 4) I think we should go 30 for AAA, AA, A and Short A, and 40 for Rookie.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 12:59:37 GMT -5
Questions/Concerns at hand: 1) Can we fix the financials of the league BEFORE we begin spending more money 2) How can we improve draft classes and free agent classes? 3) Should we remove some Minor League teams in participation of the World League (which will bring new foreign players into the PBL) 4) Should we limit Minor League roster sizes? 1) Not so sure that we can BEFORE the season. There are a few options to make the finances better, but none of them will help for this coming season. Options include - reducing average ticket revenue (10%), reducing average media contract (10%), setting revenue to control budget not owners, upping salary demands (minimal instant impact, it only affects players as they get a new contract). 2) For free agency, see #1. For drafts, I would strongly oppose making better draft classes. It is far better for long-term playability to have weak drafts than too many good ones. The thought of a large number of talented youngsters earning 400k for years at superstar level on top of the current financial situation is not a good one. Kenny's idea is not a bad one, but only so long as it averages as no better than now - ie 50% of the drafts would need to be EVEN WORSE in order to have the better ones. 3) No. I see no need to remove any leagues at this point, the file is not at all large and the PWL will be very tiny in file size terms 4) What advantage would this bring? GMs who take care of their minors do this already, and other GMs are just wasting their own development time. Any players rotting in the minors with any potential can be picked up on Rule V anyway. For me, I would leave 2, 3 and 4 entirely alone, and have a more detailed discussion/vote on the finances - but given that none of the options can happen for this season I would get the sims rolling again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 16:58:50 GMT -5
Questions/Concerns at hand: 1) Can we fix the financials of the league BEFORE we begin spending more money 2) How can we improve draft classes and free agent classes? 3) Should we remove some Minor League teams in participation of the World League (which will bring new foreign players into the PBL) 4) Should we limit Minor League roster sizes? 1) I agree with those wanting to bump up salary expectations for stars. We have to do something so that it isn't so easy for teams to afford to re-sign their own players, thus diluting the FA pool and insuring that good, not great, players like Kubel are getting $27m per season. We also need to come up with an effective way to do subsidized salary dumps. I posted an idea about allowing a team to use present cash to subsidize a player's salary and have it be effective for the remainder of the player's contract by physically lowering the player's salary to reflect only what his new team is actually paying him. Example: Cleveland trades Kubel and $50m to some team to take the last 5 years of that contract. The cash doesn't go to the new team's coffers, but instead Kubel's contract is edited to reflect that he costs $17m per season over the last 5 years of the deal. Otherwise an albatross is basically not tradeable. 2) We don't need to go overboard, but if we can manually improve the average class a bit, we should. If you look in the bottom two minor leagues, the lack of talent there is shocking. And decent prospects should be available after the first round. Last season's class was a particular stinker in that after the middle of the first round, there really wasn't much of anything left. 3) I don't think minor league teams should be eliminated unless a franchise has an extra squad (more than the typical 6) and elects to fold the extra. It would be nice if there was a way to differentiate between Hi-A and Low-A. At present the game simply treats all A leagues as being equal, which means that players get pissed if they have to spend two years in A ball because they aren't advancing. Can anything be adjusted to make a Hi-A and Low-A? 4) Rosters should probably be limited. 25-30 for AAA-SS, 40 for R would be my suggestion.
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Post by reds on Feb 22, 2011 17:05:08 GMT -5
Just as an FYI, you can see what leagues are High A and Low A here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_league_baseball_leagues_and_teams). It doesn't help the progression for player morale, but at least we can all be playing guys of similar talent against each other.
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Post by yankeesgm on Feb 22, 2011 19:25:42 GMT -5
I think for the finances and draft classes I agree with Mariners - wait till we see what OOTP12 does with it all. We don't want to cobble together some sort of a bodged fix only to have OOTP12 screw it back up again when the file is converted. I personally like full minors (I can spend hours looking for the one player in the system that can actually hit !) but if others don't perhaps we can offer an opt out? If you don't want a certain level of team, just change that team to 'no affiliation' and move your players to other levels. By the same token perhaps people, like me, Mariners & Rockies could have extra affiliates (maybe by adding a few high A & low A leagues from Jon's link) In an agreeable mood today, I also agree with Kenny that we ought to get moving on the WL again, or at least get everything about it tied down so we can add it as soon as we convert to 12.
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