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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 14:11:38 GMT -5
Im down with all of this especially the reduction of the minor league teams, and purge of the dead weight in FAs.
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Post by David_ExposGM on Aug 4, 2019 15:00:33 GMT -5
1. Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R No problem with the contraction part, but I do have a question. The file is rather bloated and takes forever to d/l (could be me and my machine of course) and hopefully this would improve that? Question: Have you determined the process by which the resulting minor league FAs would be "raided" (your words)? Question: Do you know for sure how the resulting change in quality of the minor leagues (obviously better across the board) will affect the league short and longer term?
3. Reduce the number of rounds in the first year player draft to 10 or 15 I am assuming this is only should contraction happen? Question: Do you know the optimum formula for four levels of minors? Question: For how many more rounds would you generate players? We wouldn't want to be right back here in a few seasons by over-generating draftees? Question: Do you know what the affect of the increase of talent throughout all league levels (if weeding out minor league players and all the free agent scrubs) will have on the following few draft years?
4. Add a maximum roster size on the minor leagues (35 per team?) No problem personally. If you choose not to pay close attention now, and do not let the AI do it, I suspect you will have to with this rule turned on in the game. I don't think you can export your file w/o complying?
5. Remove 3,000 1/2 star players from the league Sounds good, and I am not opposed, but... Together with contracting and "raiding"/redistributing the minor league talent, the overall level of talent in the league cannot help by rise significantly, so one question. Question: What sort of "sandbox" testing results will be the go/no go deciding factors? Or are we doing this and then tweaking any issues raised as a result?
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Post by Commish_Ron on Aug 4, 2019 15:06:05 GMT -5
I did some draft testing in the sandbox league today. Unfortunately I messed up my backup before I was 100% complete and am not up to simulating the league 9 months again to get sandbox back to the draft date. But I did learn some things. First, by star ratings it is definitely generating by percentage. So with a smaller draft you did get less star players generated. (Numbers attached). My hunch on this is that the game will correct to a fairly static level of talent in the league. So while the drafts may look less sexy if they are smaller I suspect the impact would be that we would see less specs flame out and more get ratings bumps to balance. Whether that is a good or bad thing is debatable. Second, I got an interesting warning message when I dropped the number of rounds. It recommended generating players for 24 rounds or "the league may run out of players". Currently we generate for 28. On a hunch I loaded a backup and went ahead and deleted a bunch of minor leagues until there were 8 left. Then I dropped the number of rounds to 18 again, this time I received no warning. I wanted to try to change that setting again very low to see how many rounds were recommended with minor leagues deleted but I screwed up and lost my files before I had that chance. Next time I have a chance (probably next weekend), I'll set up the Sandbox again, figure out exactly which minor leagues we would be deleting, and see what the game recommends for the number of rounds with that set up.
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Post by Commish_Ron on Aug 4, 2019 15:28:12 GMT -5
1. Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R No problem with the contraction part, but I do have a question. The file is rather bloated and takes forever to d/l (could be me and my machine of course) and hopefully this would improve that? Question: Have you determined the process by which the resulting minor league FAs would be "raided" (your words)? Question: Do you know for sure how the resulting change in quality of the minor leagues (obviously better across the board) will affect the league short and longer term?
3. Reduce the number of rounds in the first year player draft to 10 or 15 I am assuming this is only should contraction happen? Question: Do you know the optimum formula for four levels of minors? Question: For how many more rounds would you generate players? We wouldn't want to be right back here in a few seasons by over-generating draftees? Question: Do you know what the affect of the increase of talent throughout all league levels (if weeding out minor league players and all the free agent scrubs) will have on the following few draft years?
4. Add a maximum roster size on the minor leagues (35 per team?) No problem personally. If you choose not to pay close attention now, and do not let the AI do it, I suspect you will have to with this rule turned on in the game. I don't think you can export your file w/o complying?
5. Remove 3,000 1/2 star players from the league Sounds good, and I am not opposed, but... Together with contracting and "raiding"/redistributing the minor league talent, the overall level of talent in the league cannot help by rise significantly, so one question. Question: What sort of "sandbox" testing results will be the go/no go deciding factors? Or are we doing this and then tweaking any issues raised as a result?
Good questions here. 1. I think it is a pretty safe assumption that the file size would reduce. I'll add this to my checklist for testing next weekend. I can generate a league file from sandbox after minor leagues are removed and see how it looks. My thoughts on minor league "raiding" process are; League would be notified well in advance what teams are being contracted. At the time of contraction any players left on those teams are automatically moved to the FA pool. (I confirmed that today). I would give the league, (what, 6 sims?) to sign whatever players they want on FA before I deleted players from the FA to a more manageable number. As far as how it will affect the league across the board, this is a pretty broad question. I do not claim to be able to predict or guarantee every result of these changes. I would probably be a good idea to simulate out 5 seasons or so and see what the volume and distribution of players is and look for any other major red flags. Unfortunately leaving the AI in charge of everything for the simulation will have some impact on the results. I am open to any testing steps or benchmarks people can think of. 3. The game does give a warning if it thinks you have reduced the number of draft rounds lower than your current set up should support. I will establish that number in next weekends testing. I have been generating 3 more rounds than we draft so I can be sure we don't run out after deleting Jim Unknown's and so there is maybe a shred of intrigue in the final round. That would continue. I don't know the impact on future drafts. I can take a look at the draft pool each season as I simulate the next 5. 4. I think you get a warning but I do not think it prevents you from exporting. The warning will help to keep people in line. There is also a Stats+ report that can be monitored to keep people in compliance. We would add specific consequences to the rules. We can debate that later. Financial penalties? Commissioner releases your second best prospect at that level? 5. There will be changes and we will need to adjust our team management for. Will the game correct and we will see stars reduced across the board until we get to the same percentages we are at now? Maybe 2 1/2 star plays will just not be as good as they used to be? We will all learn together. Yes, we will certainly be open to tweaking as need, but we will test as much as possible in Sandbox as well and hopefully go in prepared enough that tweaking can be kept to a minimum.
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Post by Texas Rangers on Aug 4, 2019 15:33:51 GMT -5
I am very hands on with my minors and for those who do not choose to be, there are settings that make it so they don't have to be. Full disclosure: I see none of these changes as necessary and do not really understand where there is such a push.
That said, there appears to be a wide amount of support for making some changes, which is fine as I like the direction the discussion has gone. First and foremost, a good amount of testing should be done to make sure draft classes do not end up getting out of whack and any externalities we may not have considered can be addressed. We have seen in the past how tricky it can be to start messing with sliders, and the league is also set to naturally evolve and make rule changes (the PBL game engine raised the mound at one point in the '20s).
Among the options on the table, I support
** Keeping Short Season League, as there is a tangible difference between Rookie ball and SS/A. I prefer not to lose 18 lineup spots and 12 starting pitching spots overnight in the minor leagues.
** 35 man rosters are good, that's the number that I start looking to get rid of players anyway, any more than that and players are just sitting around. I suggest that Rookie LG rosters should be at 50.
** 15 round rookie draft works
**I advocated strongly for culling the free agent herd YEARS ago when with Toronto, because there was a strong belief that all of the good DH types that weren't retiring were affecting the balance of hitting/pitching talent in the draft classes (there were a few years where there were very very few decent hitting specs being produced). --But I think I agree with the Master Of Spreadsheets when he says this: I'm actually against this. There are definitely 0.5 star players who are legitimate (if below average) major leaguers. I don't know how you'd purge the roster without getting rid of the few diamonds in the rough. I'd rather simply let the teams purge their own minors and let free agency be bloated with extra worthless players until the problem resolves itself (which it will given that the we're dropping the influx of bad players into the league considerably --Ron mentioned being selective with the culling, which I can get on board with, I just think the problem, to the extent that it exists, would resolve itself.
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Post by Rich - Former GM on Aug 4, 2019 15:52:35 GMT -5
Hand up for another GM who likes to actively manage the minors. I do two major reorganization of minors a year and keep an eye on performance throughout the year. With that being said:
1. Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R - Almost, short season A ball has value to me since this is where the better of the draft class usually get placed.
2. <edit, removed> 3. Reduce the number of rounds in the first year player draft to 10 or 15 - 10 seems pretty harsh in terms of cutting too many rounds out too quick. 15 seems more appropriate with a gradual lowering over time if needed. 4. Add a maximum roster size on the minor leagues (35 per team?) - Yes, yes please. 5. Remove 3,000 1/2 star players from the league - Go for it. There might be some diamonds in the rough from time to time, but I trust Ron to set appropriate parameters to delete those guys that'll never see playing time, even at the lowest levels.
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Post by sansterre - Milwaukee Brewers on Aug 4, 2019 18:27:09 GMT -5
Can I just say that I really appreciate the discussion here? Lots of good points, lots of collaboration and lots of contributions to help the league move forward successfully.
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Post by kendalld00(GM for hire) on Aug 4, 2019 21:13:11 GMT -5
Hands up also for minor league guru playing...
Here are some recommendations I have.
1. Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R. I am good with this or these 4 with the short league.
3. Reduce the number of rounds in the first year player draft to 10 or 15 I am definitely in favor of a shorter draft..
4. Add a maximum roster size on the minor leagues (35 per team?)
35 is good... I like to keep (R) at 50!!
5. Remove 3,000 1/2 star players from the league
Yes... Diamonds are very few and hard to find.. Fewer players should hopefully speed up the league file download.
Excellent suggestions... Keeps us up to date with your progress on the test file.. Thanks Ron!!
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Post by Chicago(N)GMMike on Aug 5, 2019 3:34:07 GMT -5
1. Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R I think we should keep a Short Season A level also. That is a great place to start a player you draft out of college who is too advanced for Rookie ball but you don't want to start them in A ball; I don't think 5 farm teams is too many to manage.3. Reduce the number of rounds in the first year player draft to 10 or 15 15 rounds sounds right to me4. Add a maximum roster size on the minor leagues (35 per team?) 35 is a good number5. Remove 3,000 1/2 star players from the league Let's do it!
All in, but would like to keep S-A
Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R I think we should keep a Short Season A level also. That is a great place to start a player you draft out of college who is too advanced for Rookie ball but you don't want to start them in A ball; I don't think 5 farm teams is too many to manage.
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Post by MetDaMeats on Aug 5, 2019 6:02:56 GMT -5
I did some draft testing in the sandbox league today. Unfortunately I messed up my backup before I was 100% complete and am not up to simulating the league 9 months again to get sandbox back to the draft date. But I did learn some things. First, by star ratings it is definitely generating by percentage. So with a smaller draft you did get less star players generated. (Numbers attached). My hunch on this is that the game will correct to a fairly static level of talent in the league. So while the drafts may look less sexy if they are smaller I suspect the impact would be that we would see less specs flame out and more get ratings bumps to balance. Whether that is a good or bad thing is debatable. Is it an established idea that the game keeps talent static? I've never heard of this before. I'd really like that confirmed because I'm not too enthused by the 18 round drafts having 29-32 total players at 2.5 or above stars as opposed to 55-65 with 28 rounds. I know this is only two test runs each, but it's not really encouraging to see the viable draft talent cut in half. Again, if we could somehow generate the players for 35 rounds, but only draft 15 and discard the rest, that would be ideal for me.
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Post by sansterre - Milwaukee Brewers on Aug 5, 2019 7:37:16 GMT -5
I did some draft testing in the sandbox league today. Unfortunately I messed up my backup before I was 100% complete and am not up to simulating the league 9 months again to get sandbox back to the draft date. But I did learn some things. First, by star ratings it is definitely generating by percentage. So with a smaller draft you did get less star players generated. (Numbers attached). My hunch on this is that the game will correct to a fairly static level of talent in the league. So while the drafts may look less sexy if they are smaller I suspect the impact would be that we would see less specs flame out and more get ratings bumps to balance. Whether that is a good or bad thing is debatable. Is it an established idea that the game keeps talent static? I've never heard of this before. I'd really like that confirmed because I'm not too enthused by the 18 round drafts having 29-32 total players at 2.5 or above stars as opposed to 55-65 with 28 rounds. I know this is only two test runs each, but it's not really encouraging to see the viable draft talent cut in half. Again, if we could somehow generate the players for 35 rounds, but only draft 15 and discard the rest, that would be ideal for me. Obviously, if true, the situation will resolve itself in 5-10 seasons, as the new draft value becomes the norm. But that means we'd be dealing with 5-10 years where draft picks are worth only 65% of what they'd been in the past. Also, while it's certainly largely coincidental, the last two drafts have been thinner on top prospects when compared to prior drafts. And we cut the draft by 17% going into two seasons ago. Definitely some food for thought.
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Post by Arizona_PBL on Aug 5, 2019 8:22:39 GMT -5
1. Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R
Include a Short A and I'd be down with this
3. Reduce the number of rounds in the first year player draft to 10 or 15
I'd be very opposed to this, I am VERY worried that it would impact the level of talent coming into the draft. if we want to speed up the draft set it to auto after round 15 or something.
4. Add a maximum roster size on the minor leagues (35 per team?)
lets make it 30 for all except R/Int which could be 50
5. Remove 3,000 1/2 star players from the league. I'd be for something like remove the 26+ year 0.5 star players but leave the younger ones that could still possibly develop in.
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Post by MetDaMeats on Aug 5, 2019 8:39:52 GMT -5
1. Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R 2. <edit, removed> 3. Reduce the number of rounds in the first year player draft to 10 or 15 4. Add a maximum roster size on the minor leagues (35 per team?) 5. Remove 3,000 1/2 star players from the league I just had a thought that would possibly resolve my issues with draft quality and having enough players. My proposal involves changing ideas 3 and 5: 1. Commish's idea kept as is. 3. Keep the number of rounds at 25. BUT all rounds after 10 (or 15) are autodrafted. 4. Commish's idea kept as is. Because there is limited space and a maximum size for the minor leagues, many of the least valuable players will have to be released after the draft. 5. Removing the 3000 (or so) least valuable players becomes a yearly, post-draft activity that purges the extra players. So we maintain draft quality, keep the minors small, remove the excess free agents and also can choose how many to purge in order to keep the pool of available free agents from running out. The downside, slightly more work for us GMs to curate the minors. But only slightly I think.
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Post by Texas Rangers on Aug 5, 2019 14:23:23 GMT -5
1. Contract minor leagues so that each organization has 4. AAA,AA,A,R 2. <edit, removed> 3. Reduce the number of rounds in the first year player draft to 10 or 15 4. Add a maximum roster size on the minor leagues (35 per team?) 5. Remove 3,000 1/2 star players from the league I just had a thought that would possibly resolve my issues with draft quality and having enough players. My proposal involves changing ideas 3 and 5: 1. Commish's idea kept as is. 3. Keep the number of rounds at 25. BUT all rounds after 10 (or 15) are autodrafted. 4. Commish's idea kept as is. Because there is limited space and a maximum size for the minor leagues, many of the least valuable players will have to be released after the draft. 5. Removing the 3000 (or so) least valuable players becomes a yearly, post-draft activity that purges the extra players. So we maintain draft quality, keep the minors small, remove the excess free agents and also can choose how many to purge in order to keep the pool of available free agents from running out. The downside, slightly more work for us GMs to curate the minors. But only slightly I think. I endorse this 100%
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