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Post by Arizona_PBL on Oct 9, 2021 18:17:10 GMT -5
We have had a lower record team (sub 500 the past three years) make the playoffs over another team 4 years in a row now.
2060: Boston 72-90 over LAA 90-72 -18 games 2059: Baltimore 73-89 over CLE 87-75 -14 games 2058: Toronto 71-91 over CHA 94-68 -23 games 2057: NYA 86-76 over LAA 94-68 -8 games
This doesn't happen with 4 divisions. Also the WC will be MUCH more interesting with more teams chasing the last spot.
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Post by Rich - Former GM on Oct 9, 2021 19:44:19 GMT -5
I can't see the competitive mismatch continuing perpetually, but a 4 year trend is tough to ignore.
However, I am a big fan of the current division rivalries and being able to play my division mates so many times in the season.
I don't doubt 4 divisions instead of 8 sends the best teams to the playoffs, but do some teams just end up wallowing in the bottom of an expanded division and getting a whole lot of GM turnover? Seems like a 1 in 4 chance to say you're a division champ (and motivate to get better) is better than no chance in an expanded division.
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Post by Sean_RedsGM on Oct 9, 2021 20:38:35 GMT -5
I would argue that the team that continues to be 3rd place in a division should re-examine their own strategy and that the league shouldn’t have to adjust playoff criteria because of it. Tampa is making the playoffs and not taking advantage of it the last 4 years. Let’s just call it what it is instead of acting like this is a problem.
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Post by Commish_Ron on Oct 9, 2021 20:56:50 GMT -5
I would argue that the team that continues to be 3rd place in a division should re-examine their own strategy and that the league shouldn’t have to adjust playoff criteria because of it. Tampa is making the playoffs and not taking advantage of it the last 4 years. Let’s just call it what it is instead of acting like this is a problem. This is not a Tampa Bay issue, it is a PBL issue and it goes back to competitive balance. You do not have to be in the Rays shoes to see a trend over the last several seasons that is worth a discussion.
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Post by Sean_RedsGM on Oct 10, 2021 9:33:04 GMT -5
I would argue that the team that continues to be 3rd place in a division should re-examine their own strategy and that the league shouldn’t have to adjust playoff criteria because of it. Tampa is making the playoffs and not taking advantage of it the last 4 years. Let’s just call it what it is instead of acting like this is a problem. This is not a Tampa Bay issue, it is a PBL issue and it goes back to competitive balance. You do not have to be in the Rays shoes to see a trend over the last several seasons that is worth a discussion. That’s fair, I’m sorry for referring to TB specific situation. I understand the frustration, so the rub is the 3 teams from the same division shouldn’t have to play each other in the first round?
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Post by Will - Cubs on Oct 10, 2021 9:54:42 GMT -5
I like the way things currently are and would vote to keep it the same.
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Post by Commish_Ron on Oct 10, 2021 16:08:13 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the conversation. Several great points have been brought up.
To summarize the conversation so far this is how I read it.
Pros of switching to 8 divisions of 4 Higher probability of the best teams getting into the playoffs Moving some inter league games to division games
Cons of switching to 8 divisions of 4 Potential negative impact to budgets and fan interest as a result of less division leaders available to get bumps The bottom teams have more teams to overcome to get on top Reduction of rivalries and division identity Slightly less balanced schedule
As far as the schedule balance, I've played with the numbers and have come up with this which is still pretty balanced: 13 games against 6 division opponents and 12 against 1 (90 games in division) 6 games against inner division opponents. (48 games inner league) 3 games against one interleague division. (24 games inter league)
For comparison we now have 14 games against 3 division opponents (42 games) 6 games against 12 inner league (72 games) 3 games against 16 inter league (48 games)
While the new schedule is slightly less balanced it does shift some inter league games to division games.
My take is that item that carries most weight is the playoff impact of switching. The question is if the value of the cons outweighs it. That is totally subjective and up to each person to decide individually. It appears that the impact to division rivals and identity is the largest concern. Based on what I have read so far I am doubtful this change will pass. But it has gotten enough support to merit a poll to make it official.
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Post by Rich - Former GM on Oct 10, 2021 17:33:15 GMT -5
That new schedule might actually strengthen division rivalries at first glance. I mean half of our games would be against these new rivals as opposed to the quarter we now have.
This is interesting and might actually move that particular point from a con to a pro for me.
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Post by Commish_Ron on Oct 10, 2021 18:06:38 GMT -5
That’s fair, I’m sorry for referring to TB specific situation. I understand the frustration, so the rub is the 3 teams from the same division shouldn’t have to play each other in the first round? I think the real issue is how down the AL East has been recently. Over the past 4 seasons AL East has sent a team to the playoffs that ranged between 8 and 23 games behind another team that did not get in. The best division winning record in the last 3 seasons was 73-89. Going back to an earlier point... Division power is cyclical. I think we have some really excellent GMs in the AL East. I do expect that division to bounce back. Consistently having a division winner at or below .500 over the long haul seems extremely unlikely. Still, it is certainly possible another division goes through a struggle at some point and I concede that it is far more unlikely for 8 teams to struggle together instead of 4. So, no, I don't think it is about 3 teams from the same division getting in or having to play in the first round. It is more about a team getting bounced out by a team that performed well below them. Finally, I am just being devils advocate and trying to represent both sides of the debate fairly. I am not convinced that the recent pattern is reason to make a change. But I understand the position.
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Post by Ryan_NatsGM on Oct 10, 2021 22:36:45 GMT -5
I would favor divisions of eight with the scheduling Ron proposed, but it's not a huge deal for me either way. I'm probably biased by the rumored MLB owners plan to go to divisions of four and play a ridiculously unbalanced schedule to save on travel costs. Cheap bastards.
Anyway, in the PBL larger divisions do a much better job of getting the best six teams in the playoffs in each league, though probably a slightly worse job of getting the best two teams byes. Divisions are always cyclical, but the larger the divisions the less weird AL East problems you'll have in the long run. And for every Boston that gets a playoff appearance to help them rebuild you get an Angels team that gets discouraged by a near miss, so I think that evens out in the end.
Loosely related side note: I don't notice any issues with travel or rest, but does anyone know if that's programmed in? For example, if I play in Washington one night, then LA the next without a travel day will that affect my team's performance?
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Post by Commish_Ron on Oct 11, 2021 9:24:29 GMT -5
Loosely related side note: I don't notice any issues with travel or rest, but does anyone know if that's programmed in? For example, if I play in Washington one night, then LA the next without a travel day will that affect my team's performance? I do not believe this is programmed in. If it is then it is an issue with the current schedule. We have teams bouncing all over the place.
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Post by Arizona_PBL on Oct 11, 2021 9:50:31 GMT -5
A few other things of note when changing to a 4-division setup, you generally will have more people battling for playoff spots which will lead to more engaged players/teams toward the end of the year and a more active trade deadline as more teams will be in the hunt. This past year we would have had 4 teams in the AL within 2 games of each other for the last playoff spot through most of August and September. That adds excitement and engagement.
Also, I think it has been generally harder the past several seasons for teams to rebuild due to the low turnout of good prospects available from the draft and people hanging on to their good prospects more than they did in the past.
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