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Post by Derek _ Red Sox on Dec 21, 2016 8:43:44 GMT -5
Look at the new guy with 26 total posts making a great point and having an impact on the PBL. This is why I always say for new guys not to be shy and speak up!
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Post by Commish_Ron on Dec 21, 2016 10:24:45 GMT -5
So I am going to lobby for the Yes votes back one more time I asked for someone in the No camp to make a case. Props to Brian for stepping up and presenting a great one. However, I still respectfully disagree. There is definitely a skill to analyzing and maximizing player development. Like all things in OOTP that analysis needs to include many different factors. If you are basing your decisions 100% on ratings or 100% on performance you are working with limited data. Then, within both areas there are sub areas. Hopefully no one is just going through and promoting the pitchers with the best ERA. If I focus on one specific statistic for performance my analysis is again pretty limited. To me, this drop down exposes one more piece of information. It adds a factor. I think I can reasonably paraphrase Brian's argument as "This drop down is an easy button for player development analysis." I am arguing that is actually an additional piece of data that can be used in addition to existing and help to paint a more colorful, complete picture of the players development status. And just like the currently existing data, if you use this drop down as an easy button, I think you are working with an extremely limited picture. That's my take. Let the chips fall where they may. Good discussion.
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Post by David_ExposGM on Dec 21, 2016 10:42:51 GMT -5
And not to sidetrack things, but this is a non-destructive change to the game. In other words, unlike turning on (or off) entire coaching staff or financials or something else that alters the game from that point I THINK this just alters the information provided.
IF it turns out to be a major pain, disliked by all, not what most (even voting YES) expected, then I THINK it can just be clicked off again with very few ramifications to the game itself. AFTER another VOTE of course...
Might influence the "soft no's" to switch to a YES???
Close vote. Still need input from a few others!!!
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Post by Mac_Yankees GM on Dec 21, 2016 12:23:58 GMT -5
Great points made both pro and con.
I still am on the yes side. I agree with dj, it is a non destructive change that we could change back if it is turns out to be something that people really don't like.
Lets give it a chance.
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Post by Tim_GiantsGM on Dec 21, 2016 12:27:14 GMT -5
I really don't understand the pushback against this proposal. If you'd like to keep things the same, then you don't change the setting on your game screen. Well, I voted no and would be happy to share my 2 cents. If the progression of a player is visible at various levels of play (ML, AAA, AA...etc), it becomes very easy and clear when a player is ready to move between levels. I enjoy the ambiguity of the current system because it forces the human GM's to read between the lines and doesn't provide a clear signal when a player is ready to be promoted or demoted. I have been working at this skill over my time in the PBL, and have made many mistakes as evident by the extreme ammounts of movement by some of the players in my minor league system. I feel as though by making this proposed change to the PBL it would remove an element of skill that has been developed by (some of) the human GM's. I welcome your counter arguments to change my perspective. For me, the ability to view the skills of a player as he compares with others playing at the same level simply is one more tool for a GM to use to help him evaluate a player's readiness to be promoted or to be demoted. This tool may be used along with stats and other indicators to make a decision. Over the last 30-40 years, many, new tools (e.g., the many Sabermetrics tools) have been introduced to help MLB GMs evaluate talent. Some GMs use most or all of them. Some GMs use some of them. Each GM determines which tools they wish to use. The new tools haven't negated evaluation techniques that were used before their introduction. In my opinion, they have enriched the evaluation process. As a result, MLB GMs "know" a lot more about a player - current and potential talent level - than they ever have. Actually, they think they know more than they did in past years. The primary skill remains unchanged: making the "right" decision at the "right" time. And even if a GM makes the right decision at the right time, nothing is known for certain. As we all know, some players exceed expectations and some flame out. If we enhance the PBL by adding the optional ratings by level, it still will be up to a GM to make the right call. Ratings by level is only one indicator of a player's readiness at a particular level. For example, based on star ratings a player may appear to have reached his potential at the A+ level, but if he has not performed well at that level perhaps he is not ready for AA. After weighing all factors, the GM still must use his best judgment and make the call. The ratings by level feature is not a "magic bullet" that will provide us with clear answers. Whether a GM uses ratings by level or not, he still will need to "read between the lines" and make a decision based on his experience and the available information. In my view, this feature will not "remove an element of skill that has been developed by (some of) the human GMs." A GM who has developed a method that works without the use of ratings by level will be able to continue to use it. He still can build a solid, successful organization. Ratings by level simply is one more tool in the toolbox. If a GM wishes to use it, the additional tool will provide more information for him to use to evaluate talent. Some may use the additional information effectively; some may not. In the end, each GM no doubt will continue to develop and use a custom process to evaluate talent. Whether a GM uses ratings by level or not, his skill in considering all available information and then making the right decision will continue to be the determining factor.
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Post by Ryan_NatsGM on Dec 21, 2016 20:10:11 GMT -5
Agree with Ron and Tim that this isn't a magic bullet solution. It might make shuffling minor league rosters somewhat easier, but I think it's providing information a real world GM would have. Scouting should be able to tell you whether a player is better or worse than his peer group with some degree of accuracy, not just where he rates on a scale where average is your average major leaguer. You can watch a little league game and figure out who the stars are, but you wouldn't judge them on the same scale you'd assess the pros on.
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